Curse

vvh · Nov 12, 2005, 08:06 AM // 08:06

You guys should definitely check out this amazing video.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ewpost&t=79181

I can see people spaming this in mission posts.

Group looking for Ranger protector with ignite arrows to protect the king
from Mursaats and Jade bows. LOL, using Lina as a protector is a thing of the past. Welcome the new Ranger protector. hahaha.

This update is ridiculously funny. Every single AOE spell is added a secondary effect which I call "condition fleeing" that cannot be removed by any monk protection skillz. "Condtion fleeing" pwns! just hope that the same AOE spell has the same effects(condition fleeing) on all the W/mos in Competition Arena. At least, it would make my faction-farming day easier.

twicky_kid · Nov 12, 2005, 08:06 AM // 08:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aeon_Xin

Twicky.

OK, I like my bubble.

One, well, why should everyone have to be all powerful that you are, with the same skills you have? Why can't I be an all powerful PVe With All Fire?

If you say you're actually better than all AOE elementalists, why do you back this thing so much? You weren't affected by it in the least, from the way you post. Your vote on the topic is about as valid as a Rangers pet.

i back this b/c it gives me a great challenge in pve. i can accually get more parties with rangers, non battery necros, and heaven forbid my mes. new players learn better tactics that transfer over to pvp more smoothly. most important of all it will put a HUGE dent into botting.

yes fire was hurt but its not the only thing out there. btw fire still has great spells. fireball, invocation, mark......they are still very usable along with other fire skills.

_necroangel_ · Nov 12, 2005, 08:07 AM // 08:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skean Dau

Why are we being forced to "think ways around it"??? I don't wan't to. I want to play the game that I enjoyed playing. I want to turn on the computer for the two hours that I can spare and accomplish something. I want to leave my "adapting" for work. If this means that I have the wrong game, then fine, but they won't get another cent of my money and, more importantly (and often overlooked), the competition will get loads of it.

I wasn't exactly referring to others that have such a limited time to play the games, I was referring to those who are stressing out over something so trivial...I mean, if they want to spend all their time complaining, they can at least spend a little time trying to come up with a different strategy...And also, I'm sure that you wouldn't pay another cent to play the game...I mean, who would? It's a free of monthly fees...The game is yours to do what you will...But when others rant on and complain, it kinda gets old...

Zakarr · Nov 12, 2005, 08:16 AM // 08:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skean Dau

Why are we being forced to "think ways around it"??? I don't wan't to. I want to play the game that I enjoyed playing. I want to turn on the computer for the two hours that I can spare and accomplish something. I want to leave my "adapting" for work. If this means that I have the wrong game, then fine, but they won't get another cent of my money and, more importantly (and often overlooked), the competition will get loads of it.

Fair enough. Guild Wars is a different game. There is loads of other games which don't need "think ways around it". Maybe you should play them? Every game can't serve your needs.

Aeon_Xin · Nov 12, 2005, 08:19 AM // 08:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

i back this b/c it gives me a great challenge in pve. i can accually get more parties with rangers, non battery necros, and heaven forbid my mes. new players learn better tactics that transfer over to pvp more smoothly. most important of all it will put a HUGE dent into botting.

yes fire was hurt but its not the only thing out there. btw fire still has great spells. fireball, invocation, mark......they are still very usable along with other fire skills.

I can respect all of those reasons.

But it basically reversed, you can get into a partier easier, while every nuker has to take the time to learn how to build, aquire skills, and all that, even remake armors with the other runes in them and all.

Any time put into looking for fire aoe's wasted, or skill points(i got impatient with one of my ele's) Fire has it's uses, but all they have left are support for the big stuff that was taken away(not away, but you know what i mean, rendered ineffectual)

In admittance I am a noob, I don't know that much at level 13 or so.
My one final question to you now that I kind of understand you.

Would there have been easier ways to block botting though, aside from ruin some aoe builds?

*edit, so as not to double post.
Not really in relation to the above.

If they are going to make such drastic AI improvements, spells should be replaced, or made to cost much less mana and cast much faster(as they're more of a failsafe, "get the hell outa my face please"), AND should be worked into a the story somehow. Changes this vast should be linear in accordance with the PvE world and it's already really large story. Since the animals got smarter, there's less magic for humans to use, bleah bleah. (They didn't hire me, don't make fun of that lameness, it's just an example)

To just, blam, have things different, at a detremint(sp?) of many plaers, is a little calous. If they were to have the foresight to ease people into it in an above way, this would not be on page 51 of a tired topic.

borkbork · Nov 12, 2005, 08:22 AM // 08:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

i don't think so. aoe spells are never used in pvp unless they are one time shots. increasing the dmg on duration aoe spells would have impact on pvp.

Where have you been PvPing? Meteor Shower or Maelstrom is used quite frequently to scatter groups that ball up...

Jimmy The Trickster · Nov 12, 2005, 08:26 AM // 08:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

people really can't stand change. get in your little bubble and everything will be ok. anything on the outside is just met with fear right aways. guess its just human nature.

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

its time to come out of the bubble people it is safe.

I just want to say, I think you've been incredibly unfair to people during this entire experience. You insist that this patch (well, both the 11/10 and 11/11) was the "best thing ever" and all that, and I'm glad you like it. It's good that the update made your non-fire elemental more important, but it's painful to see you take issue to every single person who had a problem with it.

As I said in my one other post, I wasn't directly affected by this patch, except as it pertained to my wife, who is, from a practical standpoint, the only person I actually game with. Her character was reduced to nothingness by the first patch, with her skills scattering all the monsters out of my mesmer's spell-casting range. The badguys would run before her firestorm was cast, and often they'd go in completely random directions. It was horrible, and unpleasent.

Now, after the second patch, things have gotten better. Yes, the badguys still dodge AoE, but they do so after they take damage, not before. They also don't go running off like they left the oven on somewhere, which means you can actually kill them when they return.

She's happy, because her fire elementalist can still work. It wasn't that she was afraid she couldn't be the greatest nuker ever, or that the game got harder. It was that her character, whose function was to damage the enemy, was unable to damage the enemy. Saying AoE isn't meant to damage the enemy is just absurd.

Any skill/spell/whatever that inflicts damage on the enemy is meant to damage the enemy. It may not be much (chaos storm still isn't really hurting them), but it has to be usable. It has to inflict enough damage that you don't feel like a waste casting a 25-mana spell. When creatures were dodging meteor shower before the first meteor fell, then it was crippled and rendered useless.

For non-fire elementalists, how would you feel if your favorite character skills were crippled, such that they couldn't perform their desired function. For example, if your water skills no longer slowed the enemy, if your warrior could no longer absorb the damage that they do, or if your mesmer could no longer make life miserable for spell-casters? Cheated?

That's how many of the fire-elementalists felt, and that's why they complained. Fire elementalists are nukers, and they are incredibly powerful. Maybe they're too powerful, but there's a massive difference between what they were pre-patch, and what they were after the 11/10 patch. It was akin to the difference between a level 20 guy and a level 3. Suddenly, they couldn't hurt anyone, when they used to hurt everyone. Why shouldn't they complain, or be unhappy?

The 11/11 patch fixed that to a large degree. Not completely, but enough to return them to their happy space as Damage-Dealers. I hope this will work for most of those affected, because I hate to see so much fighting over what should be a friendly and stress-relieving game.

Also, to everyone who said things like "oh no, now you need to use your brain" and "if you can't adapt, you should just leave", and all that jazz, I just want to say "let the hostility end, please?" and "It's just a freak'n game". Let those who have complaints voice them, and those who enjoyed the patch, say so, and not act like any voice other than your own should be banned, or any idea that you disagree with should be shouted down.

alright, I'm really tired and this was supposed to be a short post...so I'm just gonna go.

hopefully, that will be all I have to say.
good day

Aeon_Xin · Nov 12, 2005, 08:42 AM // 08:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy The Trickster

I just want to say.....

hopefully, that will be all I have to say.
good day

Great post for being tired.
We're not all happy, I'm not.
But I'm an off the handle kinda guy.
For all the ranting and raving everyone did against it though, there were people that ranted FOR it, finding suprise benifits, weather it's increased challenge, or nukers were jsut more popular ingame.

Either way, I've said about all there can be said anti-patch.
I hope it changes, but I think management balanced player populace and Those In Charge's need to stop botting.
I don't like it, but I'm going to learn to live with it.
I can't believe the number of nukers that caved though.

It's like, you know, your mom gives you a whole plate full of vegetables(substitute whatever makes you ill for this analogy), and you make a face, she takes half of them away, and you gobble the other half as if it were your favorite.
Weak willed.

Hell, maybe that was the intention?

*edit
Great meeting you all. Well, any of you that were nice enough to talk civilly(sp?) to me, even if not at first. To think , I just kinda got on the forums cause I wasn't in the mood to Pve or pvp. Didn't even know a patch was out. Great icebreaker huh?

twicky_kid · Nov 12, 2005, 08:43 AM // 08:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aeon_Xin

Would there have been easier ways to block botting though, aside from ruin some aoe builds?

yes there is a better way. they could make it to where you would have to have a party consisting of at least more than 1 person. that would stop soloing completely.

as it is now soloing is not stopped but slowed down by about 50%.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy The Trickster

I just want to say, I think you've been incredibly unfair to people during this entire experience. You insist that this patch (well, both the 11/10 and 11/11) was the "best thing ever" and all that, and I'm glad you like it. It's good that the update made your non-fire elemental more important, but it's painful to see you take issue to every single person who had a problem with it.

those statements are far from being unfair, its pyschology. anything outside people's normal routine is always met with fear at first. my statements are to get people to challenge themselves to think of a new stategy and try something different. if you could just nuke pve what would happen in a years time to pve. it would so dead b/c nothing would have changed. change is not always a bad thing.

btw i did like the fire line, but i found other things there were more effienct and decided to change. the popular choice remained fire. just b/c its popular or common knowledge doesn't mean its the best. now people might accually realise they have been playing with a sub-par attribute since they are forced to try out other elementals.

about the elemental armor it really doesn't matter which one you pick seen it all base 60 +15 of 1 elemental. 1 elmental is not going to make a bit of difference in most areas of the game. for certian areas of the game like ring of fire you would want pyro armor. most eles have multiple sets of armor that is nothing to do with what kind of attribute you use.

Fyre Brand · Nov 12, 2005, 08:52 AM // 08:52

Went to FoW last night with 3 monks (i was smite), 2 nukers (air and fire), 1 tank, and 2 necros. Man that was a great hunt. We did have a group that worked exceptionally well together and got to hunt for a few hours.

It did take us a little longer to kill some groups, but also there were very few deaths. The nuking worked fine. I could smite and heal okay. There was a good and bad affect to the AoE. The bad is that it did take a little longer to kill things. The good part is that it made keeping the tank alive much easier, and when beserkers or mops turned on me or a caster, zealots discouraged them from staying there.

I really don't think things are as catastrophic as some people are making them sound. It's not work to figure out how to solve problems in a game, it's just part of the challenge. That's pretty much what a game is about. It really is a good thing when things get shaken up a bit. There's two things to do when game balance changes occur. You can get upset and discouraged and just give up, or you try something a little different.

unienaule · Nov 12, 2005, 09:03 AM // 09:03

I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but since the 11th update, rares are dropping like crazy. Over 10 dropped in one Orozar mission. Not chests, drops.

twicky_kid · Nov 12, 2005, 09:05 AM // 09:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by unienaule

I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but since the 11th update, rares are dropping like crazy. Over 10 dropped in one Orozar mission. Not chests, drops.

yes they have i got 3 golds on one mission.

makes since they would increase drop quality since soloing will be slowed.

strcpy · Nov 12, 2005, 09:13 AM // 09:13

The last update, for me, made it playable again. My main smites aren't *totally* useless now. I can now still farm, it just takes longer (I don't do the 55hp thing - seems an exploit. I kill undead with "normal" skills). Since it's for fun that's OK, though I can see why some would feel angry. So, I amend my post 1000 posts or so back

Personally, to make me happy, one of two things needs to happen (and I suspect one will eventually). Mobs don't run so much. I don't think this is going to happen - anet has made that decision and it is now workable though some tweaking seems to be in order on both the henchies and mobs (I expect that will happen in time). The second, and I think it may(should) occur, is a rebalancing of skills. Things like Balthazar's Auror used to be VERY powerful and that was reflected in the 25 point cost and long recharge, what little I played a fire ele they had some skills along the same lines. It was balanced pretty well - I only used them in PvE in limited circumstances but they were important. Now, those spells are horrid - expensive for almost nothing. At best you get a few points of damage and make the enemies run - you can do the same thing with other spells that cost 5 points and recharge faster. Right now the only two effective differences between Symbol of Wrath and Balthazur's Auror is that one is self, other is anyone and one moves while the other doesnt - that's not worth anywhere near 20 points and a longer recharge time.

Basically a rebalancing of the AoE DOT spells is needed from this. Do that and I think that most complaints are just about something changing. Since AoE DOT spells are no longer heavy damage but light/medium damage and anti-melee spells they need readjusted (things like Symbol of Wrath cost up, Blath's Auror down - right now Symbol of Wrath is one of the best personal anti-melee protection skills out there and Balth is WAY over-priced). Imagine the Fire ele becomeing the best anti-melee protector in the game - decent damage, enemies flee, and decent recharge/costs - it both redefines the class and makes it entirely viable again. Heck, a smiting/protection monk will be a heck of a combo with that also (and is something of one with the current changes).

twicky_kid · Nov 12, 2005, 09:21 AM // 09:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by strcpy

Things like Balthazar's Auror used to be VERY powerful and that was reflected in the 25 point cost and long recharge, what little I played a fire ele they had some skills along the same lines. It was balanced pretty well - I only used them in PvE in limited circumstances but they were important. Now, those spells are horrid - expensive for almost nothing. At best you get a few points of damage and make the enemies run - you can do the same thing with other spells that cost 5 points and recharge faster. Right now the only two effective differences between Symbol of Wrath and Balthazur's Auror is that one is self, other is anyone and one moves while the other doesnt - that's not worth anywhere near 20 points and a longer recharge time.

i do argee that balth aura's cost should be less with the 2 sec casting and longer recharge. the recharge still isn't horrible as other's of its ilk. used to be only a 5 sec down time and was way overpowered. is is now THE best offensive and defensive aoe. since aura can move with the enchantee you can herd groups, split them up, or keep them running while you party bashes them.

symbol of wrath is just fine the way it is. 5 sec duration, doesn't move, long casting, and long recharge is enough to justify the 5 e cost.

unienaule · Nov 12, 2005, 09:28 AM // 09:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by strcpy

Imagine the Fire ele becomeing the best anti-melee protector in the game - decent damage, enemies flee, and decent recharge/costs - it both redefines the class and makes it entirely viable again.

I fail to see any reason why fire should do what earth already does.

Swehurn · Nov 12, 2005, 09:47 AM // 09:47

Ok....so I tried to log out in order to save my husband from possible flames that may come his way...due to what I'm going to write..but alas, I can't.

Personally I do not like the timing of this change at all. I understand it is their game and they can tweak it as they see fit, however I disagree with allowing players to get used to a style of play and then altering it completely. Were it a few weeks or a month or two after release, fine..I could adapt. Problem being, it's been what..7 months?..I don't want to change my play style...I liked it just fine. Gaile said something along the lines "don't you thinks it's silly...don't you get bored..it was obviously broken"...ok fine..then fix it in a timely fashion. I also tend to find the timing a tad suspicious. I mean come on...people are harping and whining all the time.."come on give us new content...we're bored"...and so they up and throw this our way...to keep us on our toes?...Maybe I was perfectly happy just going out and randomly killing things, and that was enough to sustain me until chapter 2. Or maybe it's the new players they are trying to keep interested....make the game harder so they don't fly through it in a week or two, like most of us. Stretch it out a bit...keep em interested until the update. That way they don't finish the game too quickly, get bored and move on to something else. I was perfectly happy farming for oh so craptastical drops. Nope. Never had a good one. Not a single one. But hope does spring eternal....and that's why I kept logging in each night. But whatever. I'm sure I'll just be told to go play wow or something. I loved guildwars....part of me still does, but I do know that I won't be playing as often. Am I complaining? Maybe, but I don't think so. I'm just trying to voice how I currently feel. "Adapt and change, or die"...see that one a lot in this thread...were I fighting for the survival of my species...damn skippy I'd fight!...for a game. Naw.
I see this as no different than were I to buy a $60,000 car..and 6 months or so after I purchased it the manufacturer stopped by my house and said "oh by the way...we made it perform differently than expected..and so we're here to change that now"...even though I'm perfectly happy with the way it performs....and I have no say in the matter.

dr_james2k · Nov 12, 2005, 09:58 AM // 09:58

Ok, I've found a good point. It may be actually possible to get bears in pre searing due to this. If you take an elementalist with you, let the bear come close then cast firestorm - watch it run and use charm animal, it might work.

Tactical-Dillusions · Nov 12, 2005, 10:02 AM // 10:02

OK guys...add WHIRLING DEFENCE to the list of skills that enemies run away from.

Antc · Nov 12, 2005, 10:04 AM // 10:04

Altho i didnt like the 1st update, and havent checked out the 2nd one yet, it just occurred to me whilst reading this....

If i get in a group at ToA or SF with my monk, and they ask if can switch from healing>prot or vice versa, i'm quite happy to change my attributes and skillset to be part of that group. The same goes for my necro, if theres more than one necro in the group it gets decided who is going blood/death and who is going curses, and again, i will rearrange my skillset and attributes to suit.

The thing that occurred to me is this: I have NEVER even considered changing the set up for my pyro, it has had 16 in fire since i got all the attributes. The only exception is when i've changed to air spiker for PvP or GvG.

I guess now i'll have to be as flexible with my ele as i am with my other characters.

Now the problem....how can i change to water or earth if certain players have cleaned out the rune trader and are selling water/earth superiors at 10-20k? If Anet want us to adapt they should give the rune trader an unlimited supply and fix the rune price - there are a lot of ele's in this game.

unienaule · Nov 12, 2005, 10:23 AM // 10:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antc

I guess now i'll have to be as flexible with my ele as i am with my other characters.

DingDingDingDingDing! We have a winner! (not a whiner) He actually gets it! Why should you be "forced" to change your nuker build? Cause EVERY OTHER CLASS makes different setups for different occasions.